[syndicate] FW: Request to mailing list empyre rejected

[Alan Sondheim]

Hi - I partly agree with you. I'm more partial to nettime which at least 
has little acrimony, but they really don't give clear indications of what 
they're allowing and what not. When you're on nettime you pick it up, but 
then you've (mez) have had trouble with it in the past, and that's a real 
problem. Empyre was a different state I think - with me they were hypo- 
critical, allowing Jim to be as nasty as he wanted, but then complaining 
whenever anyone else behaved the same. It's creepy.

In general I don't have problems w/ moderated lists - AOIR for example is 
one which I think is that way. It keeps them focused on topic. But nettime 
and empyre have no specific topics; they're more open than that. That's a 
problem.

One thing I do believe in - talking about governance if there is such - 
i.e. making clear what is and isn't acceptable. Poetics has been aways 
governed terribly - I finally left it - and there were huge debates, say, 
about my work, partly brought on by fucking Andrews again, but also 
brought on by a kind of misbehavior/misrecognition on the part of the 
moderators who were changing rules as they went along, arbitrarily getting 
rid of people like Kent Johnson, etc. etc. I learned the hard way a decade 
ago when I temporarily closed Fiction of Philosophy for the attacks on me; 
the list took years to recover, and with other people. (John Young and 
Elizabeth someone - forget her last name - are still infuriated at me - 
but they're behaviour was crappy in any case.)

I think the best way to go is what empyre/nettime already do (I think) 
which is moderation by committee, but then having somewhere at least, some 
sort of mandate/statement about acceptable policy/use. Even a statement 
saying that moderation _will_ be irregular would be something.

Then there are problems of newbies who never seem to get it, no matter 
what - August Highland was an arrogant mess with nettime at one point...

Aach. Pretend it's all a conference or seminar or bar or party or living 
room or mosh pit or even fluid among all of these but let people know...

- Alan, just musing. At least Cybermind and Wryting and Cyberculture and 
this list are all running well. Not to mention netbehaviour, arc, 
Imitationpoetics (although I seem to be almost the only one posting there) 
and oo and shakuachi and tenorguitar and VLF and and and...

-


On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, _dream.thick[ener]_ wrote:

> At 07:03 AM 21/11/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>> I felt fucked up on empyre, I'm not on it at this point I think. Jim 
>> Andrews who hates me made sure my stint was fairly miserable; instead of 
>> alowing me to present whatever I do, he argued constantly. It was a mess. 
>> At the same time my own input was also censored (later) in regard to other 
>> people's stuff. I'm glad empyre's out there, but allowing that sort of 
>> behaviour is as corrupt as anything else in this country.
>> 
>> Don't get me started.
>> 
>> - Alan
>
> from my latest furthfield critiquer article:
>
> "Narrowband approach to information production + reification – email lists 
> such as fibreculture, nettime and empyre - closely align themselves with this 
> linear information/discussion trajectory. This closed communication approach 
> is the opposite of the notion and execution of communication holism. 
> Contextual orientations may be offensive to those immune to more open-ended 
> approaches to meaning construction. Narrative dependents/advocates need to 
> locate their traditionalist-tilted perspectives inside established 
> frameworks. Those advocates of narrative [rational adhesive] stick to 
> theory/chronology/linear/rational/Socratic method/reason, allowing no 
> discourse reactions beyond these channels. They expressly will not relate to 
> the possibilities of context [contextualisation is viewed as pointless, 
> limitless, chaotic, disordered, risky/experimental]. This indicates the 
> antithesis of nodal [free-form branched context-feeding], which often 
> seemingly digresses from [rather than towards] an associated train of 
> thought."
>
> chunks,
> mez
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _intricate mirror mem[e_st]ories_
> _ch[str]ained+[D-fence]linked_
> http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker/
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/netwurker/
>
>
>                     .
>
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>
>
>

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