Direct Action <<>> Re: State Dept letter

[Ivo Skoric]

I inserted some comments.

To:             	ivo at reporters.net
Date sent:      	Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:46:00 -0800
Subject:        	Re: Direct Action <<>> Re: State Dept letter
From:           	hmfgsf at juno.com

About reciprocity: Croatian Serbs are Croatian citizens, but obviously
they did not wish to accept it and rebelled violently against Croatians.
Should we forget this over night? 

>>>No. But a procedure should be worked out in which Croatian 
Serbs would be allowed to return to their homes in Croatia. This is 
the only way Croatia would ever be able to weed out those who 
actually violently rebelled against Croatia. Not all of them did. 
Those who did not are innocent collateral damage of the war and 
should be allowed to settle back if they wish. Those who break the 
law should be tried and sentenced. Also, I believe that they would 
not return anyway, fearing that outcome. If Croatia blocks return 
alltogether, it serves the criminals well - because it equalizes them 
with those that did not commit any crimes.

And there is the Dayton agreement, that
obliges the return of all displaced persons - which means Bosnian Croats
back to "Republika Srpska" as much as Croatian Serbs back to Croatia.

>>>True. But we all know by now that Dayton agreement has 
serious flaws - check out http://balkansnet.org/nusreta.html to see 
one of them - Croatia is not mandated by the Dayton agreement, 
thanks god, so it is the Croatian government policy that determines 
what is right or wrong for the Republic of Croatia. They should not 
follow the bad example of one rather imperfect cease-fire 
agreement.

I do not agree that now is a good time for dismantling the visa system.
There is way too much criminal business coming from Yugoslavia, Bosnia
and Eastern Europe, white slavery , drugs etc. Croatia does not need
that, neither does the rest of Europe which would be getting it through
Croatia. Read the Jane report about just that situation. 
Hilda 

>>>Yes. I think that Western Europe would be furious if Croatia 
dismantle the visa system. On the other hand they freely criticize 
Croatia for having it. I am kind of sick and tired of Croatia being 
'Antemurralis Christianitatum' for centuries. Let them care about 
their borders themselves. Why would Croatia be their guard dog? I 
happen to believe that visa system is as effective in stopping white 
slavery and drug business, as the homeland security department 
will be in preventing terrorism. Visas just make an ordeal for 
ordinary law abiding citizens - for example, if me and my wife want 
to travel to Croatia, she will need to get a visa, which is a lot of 
paperwork and time that she and we together could better spend 
somewhere else. In that respect visas are not conducive to 
tourism. On the other hand, they do not stop the crime. On the 
contrary - the combination of Croatian visa policy and Bosnian 
Croats dual citizenship only serves mafia types in Hercegovina  - 
that is, perhaps, why the political forces that receive money from 
them so vehemently oppose dismantling either of those two 
measures. Because they are the necessary link in the trafficking in 
drugs and women between the East and West, since they can 
cross the border between Croatia and Bosnia with no checking. 
The criminal types in the Balkans are probably the best example of 
the working multiculturalism. Albanian mafia had excellent relations 
with Arkan. Croatian and Serbian criminal underground in Bosnia 
co-operated throughout the war. Bosnian Muslim organized crime 
was a part of the deal, too. Each group uses the advantages of 
other groups to maximize its profits, and the present visa policy 
does nothing to stop that, despite the popular belief. On the top of 
that, let me tell you, that I know many ways to get in and out of 
Croatia without showing my passport ever - over the Croatian-
Slovenian (did that) and over the Croatian-Bosnian border. I have no 
doubts that skilled criminals would know even more. So much 
about visas.


Yes, I do get carried away with my rants, sometimes, I agree.


Essentially, it is not very smart to defend Racan's government in 
whatever it does, I am learning a lesson. He lead an incompetent 
administration in 1989, and, uncapable of forming a policy to 
contain Milosevic's threat, he lost to Tudjman in 1990. He got a 
second chance, only, perhaps, because Tudjman died. And, again, 
he leads an incompetent administration, that sometimes even 
manages to make enemies of the groups with opposite demands.


In his struggle to please everybody, in the end he pleases nobody. 
Widely, it is perceived that, since his party was in opposition to 
Tudjman's, his politics would be different. Croatians living abroad 
often scorn him for his uncritical cooperation with so-called 
'international community.' On the other hand, the same 'i.c.' scorns 
him for his politics of appeasement of the right wing, i.e. for non-
cooperation. Apparently, despite the perception of change, there 
was not much real departure from Tudjman's policies in that areas 
of interest to the 'i.c.' 


On the contrary: it got worse. The famous "normalization 
agreement" with Belgrade was signed by Mate Granic, while 
Croatia was still governed by HDZ and Tudjman, and regrettably 
there were no developments in sense of visa abolishment since 
(although those were planned). And, while the media keeps saying 
how Tudjman did not cooperate with The Hague, but Racan's 
government does, in truth, Tudjman sent some 10 Bosnian Croats 
to the ICTY, while Racan still did not send anyone. 


However, most of your points of contention require a separate 
elaboration.


DUAL CITIZENS OF BOSNIA - I already wrote on several 
occassions, how I think that either all citizens of Bosnia should 
hold dual citizenship, or just those who acquired the second 
citizenship through exile abroad. With Mesic and Racan being in 
the beginning of their reign so adamantly supportive of the idea that 
Bosnian Croats are citizens of Bosnia, and subjects to Bosnian 
law, I thought that Bosnian Croats were stripped of their Croatian 
citizenship a long time ago. If Croatian citizens with dual 
citizenship, that do not live in Croatia, are allowed to vote in 
Croatia, then they are voting on laws that will not be implemented 
on them, which is against the constitutional principal of equality. 
On top of that, since Croats in Bosnia generally vote for HDZ, I 
believed the Racan government would have acted quickly to take 
away their right to vote. Now, however, it seems that Racan is a lot 
of talk, but not much action. In reality, most of Bosnian Croats 
rather vote in Croatia than in Bosnia: only 4000 of 80000 (1 in 20) 
registered to vote in Bosnia.

http://www.osce.org/croatia/news_in_brief/archive/180602.pdf 

On the other hand it is not true that at least some Serbs in BiH do 
not hold dual citizenship - and BiH and Yugoslavia just agreed to 
let them keep it.

http://www.balkantimes.com/html2/english/021030-GEORGI-
001.htm

There is also an interesting twist to it: some Bosnian ministers 
travel around the world using Croatian passport, because it is 
easier to travel - Bosnian passport needs visa to go anywhere...

http://www.ohr.int/ohr-dept/presso/bh-media-rep/round-
ups/default.asp?content_id=6960#5


PLOCE PORT

I don't see a reason why everything in the Balkans need to be 
settled by special, extraordinray agreements, instead of just having 
the market sorts things out. I hope I am not sounding too liberal, 
but Rotterdam is a Dutch port, operated by Dutch, and German 
companies are free and welcome to use it. The control of the port 
is in private hands of multinational corporations, anyway. Why 
does Ploce Port need to be run by a 7 member inter-state 
committee? It does seem impossible to me that any Croatian 
government will agree on the second largest port in the Republic 
being run by some committee, particularly, since 4 of 7 members 
are supposed to be non-Croatian citizens.

http://www.ohr.int/ohr-dept/presso/bh-media-rep/round-
ups/default.asp?content_id=6688


MEDJUGORJE ROAD

Of course, I would apply the same abovementioned principles on 
this issue as well. No tarrifs, no customs, no visas. Open roads.


VOLUNTARILY ABANDONED FLATS

Under Tudjman, Croatian authorities denied the refugees’ right to 
return to their flats or buy them because they had not lived in them 
"for over 6 months”. However, in November 2001 the Supreme Court 
of the Republic of Croatia annulled that discriminating decision 
taken during the rule of the HDZ. Still, disappointingly, they are 
preventing the return of refugees by legally deeming those 
apartment abandoned voluntarily. However, that language 
('voluntary abandonment') is also used by NATO and UN when 
applied to Serbs that left Sarajevo. Maybe, it can be considered 
that Serbs indeed left their homes out of their free will, but in that 
case, this should not legally prevent them from returning to their 
homes, now. After all, I can leave my flat in New York city and go 
live for 6 months in Vermont and Bloomberg will not confiscate my 
apartment and tell me that I can't come back (I might be liable for 
back-rent, though). Those are still their homes regardless of 
whether they left them voluntarily or at the gunpoint.

http://www.helsinki.org.yu/refugee_detail.php?lang=en&idgnrc=354

http://www.nato.int/ifor/un/u960206a.htm


VISAS, RIGHTS, AND RECIPROCITY

Again, I thought the visas are gone a long time ago. Now, people 
around me are telling me they are not. I am against visas in 
principle. I would abolish them worldwide. I don't see a particular 
use for visas between Croatia and its former Yugoslav neighbors. I 
think that bureaucracies in the emerging societies of post-Yugoslav 
era, are simply too bloated, slow and self-serving, keeping the 
visas and similar reactionary edifices of the communist past as the 
means of self-justification. Again, it is disappointing that Racan did 
not do much to change this. But, then, that just serves as a proof 
of his administrative incompetence. On the other hand, I cannot 
agree that reciprocity is bullshit. I believe that what applies to 
Croats, applies to Serbs and vice versa. I am interested in the 
equal rights protection.


IMPORTANT, DESERVING, AND SOVEREIGN

Lastly, I think that every country should be treated the same way in 
matters of sovereignty. Thus I welcome Canadian Quakers initiative 
to inspect the U.S. weapons of mass destruction sites. There are 
no countries more important or more deserving under the 
international law. Items checked in Maggie's letter are mostly of 
bilateral nature concerning Croatia and its neighbors (Ploce Port, 
Medjugorje Road, dual citizenship, visas, ...), and this is how they 
should be treated and resolved. There is no place for U.S. or any 
other power's pressure in those issues. If the U.S. doesn't like it - 
maybe Croatia doesn't need that kind of help. I think, anyway, that 
there are no particular benefits for Croatia joining NATO. The return 
of refugees is a human rights issue, and can't be ignored by the 
'international community' - but the two should not be mixed.


ivo


To:                    
<color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>direct_action at yahoogroups.com

</color>From:                  
<color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>Bogdan Denitch <<ttd at igc.org>

</color>Date sent:              <color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>Sat,
21 Dec 2002 14:10:48 -0500

<bold></color>Subject:               
<color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>Re: Direct Action <<<<>> Re: State
Dept letter

</bold></color>Send reply to:         
<color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>direct_action at yahoogroups.com



</color>Ivo,


You do carried away with your rants sometimes!

To begin with Croatia has not "settled: her relations with  her
neighbors.

The special status of Croatians (almost all dual citizens) in Bosnia
would be

unacceptable if it were extended to Serbs, Croatian politicians (vide;
Tomac)

are constantly messing in Bosnian politics and Croatia has blocked the
use of

Ploce as a port for Bosnian imports despite all kinds of agreements. On
the

other hand they insist on a special regime for auto traffic to and from

Dubrovnik and to Medjugorje.

Secondly the visa regime the Croat Embassy insists on in Belgrade is

demeaning and intolerable, refugees are having an impossible time getting

their homes back not to spear of a return of apartments which the Croat
law

treats as "voluntarily abandoned". Thus neither have they normalized the

relations with Serbia/Yugoslavia nor is it true that the government wants
to

settle the issues of refugees. Demanding reciprocity is bullshit since
the

Serb refugees from Croatia are its citizens

and their rights should not have anything to do with  how other
governments

treat their minorities. We still into collective guilt here.

Lastly Ivo it is bull to demand that Croatia be treated the same way as
the

US in matters of sovereignty. It is Croatia which is the petitioner and

asking for help and there is no inherent reason why it should deserve
help

from the US automatically, there are both more important countries (from
the

point of view of US interests) and far more "deserving" countries from
the

point of need and suffering.


As Americans we should beat up on US imperial bullying, but as Croat
citizens

we should not back Racan's bullshit and lying when minority rights are in

question. They are terrible in Croatia and not improving much even eight

years after the war. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year

Bogdan




Ivo Skoric wrote:


<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> Well, Maggie obviously has no clue
about what Croatians at home

> and abroad really aspire to. She thinks that they aspire to Euro-

> Atlantic integrations. Which is not all that wrong. But then she

> proceeds to check the items required for fullfillment of such

> aspirations, as they are defined by the State Department, not by

> the Croatian people.

>

> So, we read, ok, Racan did that well, and he did that well, but he

> still needs to do that and that, to make the country eligible to

> proceed with those integrations. In other words, she is merrily

> approving of Racan's sycophantic signing of SAA, his

> obsequiousness in the participation in the NATO war games, but

> she notes that there are still other difficult steps to be taken to

> demonstrate shared democratic values and standards.

>

> There is nothing in her letter that would give even a vague hint that

> they are prepared to accept Croatia in so-called Euro-Atlantic

> integrations under any other conditions but those that they

> dictated, with a complete disregard of the will of Croatian people

> and their elected representatives. However, how could that be the

> demonstration of democratic values and standards, if Racan does

> what he is commanded to do by the U.S. administration, in patent

> contravention of the wishes of the Croatian electorate? They force

> him to behave undemocratically, and only then they are prepared to

> give him a passing grade on the democratic values and standards.

> What hypocrites!

>

> As for the three things still needed to be completed under the US

> plan for Croatia's democracy: encouraging refugees to return,

> transferring indicted war criminals to The Hague, and normalizing

> relations with its neighbors - I think she is factually wrong on two of

> the three. Racan's government normalized relations with its

> neigbors - it gave in on Piran bay to do that with Slovenia, it gave in

> on many things (war reparations, Sljivancanin, Perisic, Prevlaka,

> etc.) to do that with Serbia/Montenegro, and it gave up on Croats in

> Bosnia to do that with Bosnia, and there was never any problem in

> relations with Hungary, which makes all the neighbors accounted

> for. What exactly is her point there? I would definitely ask her to

> clarify that. Maybe her geography is not any better than her boss's.

>

> Also, Racan's government relentlessly encourages refugees to

> return. They are not returning because they are fine where they

> presently are, or because they are scared of old neighbors that

> they mistreated, or because there indeed are forces in Croatia that

> are against their return - but Racan's government has nothing to do

> with that. This is like holding US government responsible for every

> NYPD or LAPD racial excess like Abner Louima or Rodney King.

>

> So, it boils down to the delivery of Bobetko and Gotovina to The

> Hague. Again, Racan's government would do that at any time, if

> that would not weaken their already weak political position in the

> country. It really is a very sickening situation that Croatia is left
to

> assert its sovereignty by witholding the transfer of indicted war

> criminals - being that everything else was already taken from her. I

> think Maggie needs to meditate on why is that so, a little.

>

> ivo

>

> ps - Racan, on the other hand, should say NO to NATO, reduce

> military spending, and decriminalize cannabis.

>

> -/-

>

> So, here is the State Dept. letter:

>

> Dear Ms. Foley,

>

> Thank you for your November 20 letters  to Secretary of State Colin

> Powell and Nat. Security Advisor Dr. Condoleezza Rice, regarding

> Croatia's Euro-Atlantic aspirations.  I have been asked to respond

> on their behalf. The democratic government of Prime Minister

> Racan has taken significant steps to resolve the country's

> outstanding post-war issues, strengthen its economy and advance

> the country's efforts to join euro-Atlantic institutions. Croatia's

> signature of a Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU

> and its participation in NATO's Membership Action Plan are

> tangible symbols that international community recognizes these

> achievements. Membership in the EU and NATO requires not

> only the economic and military compatibility of member states, bur

> also the demonstration of shared democratic values and standards.

> Therefore, it is crucial for Croatia to resolve its outstanding
post-war

> issues -- to encourage refugees to return, to transfer those indicted

> for war crimes to the Hague and to fully normalize relations with its

> neighbors.

>

> the Racan government, with the strong suppport of President

> Mesic, has taken some difficult steps toward this end, and by

> continuing to take such actions, will move the country further down

> the path towards full integration with the european community. I

> hope that the Croatian Diaspora will give its full support to their

> efforts.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> signed: Maggie Nardi

> Croatia Desk Officer


---------------------------------------------------------
Ivo Skoric
19 Baxter Street
Rutland VT 05701
802.775.7257
ivo at balkansnet.org
balkansnet.org
---------------------------------------------------------
Ivo Skoric
19 Baxter Street
Rutland VT 05701
802.775.7257
ivo at balkansnet.org
balkansnet.org