Fwd: Re: [Reader-list] [OT] some facts

[Frederic Madre]

this is my answer, FWIW, please do not engage in a cross list war

f.

>Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 13:32:23 +0200
>To: "reader" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>From: Frederic Madre <fmadre at wanadoo.fr>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [OT] some facts
>
>At 08:51 08/09/2001 +1000, geert lovink wrote:
>>in early 1996 the Syndicate mailinglist was founded and for a good five
>>years functioned as an important trading ground for ideas and information
>>about European new media culture (and increasingly also beyond 'Europe').
>>Its main focus was to establish an exchange between former West and former
>>East Europe. The list boomed and almost crashed during the Kosovo crisis in
>>1999. This arts and culture got intensely tense between those who favored
>>the NATO bombing and intervention and those who criticized it. 
>
>meanwhile such discussions were terrifyingly clamped down on the nettime list which became dominated by the pro bombing posters some of them being ardent supporters of the dangerous UCK/KLA
>nettime became a vanity mailing list for its arrogant moderators
>"In my opinion it's a good lesson what can happen to list."
>and that is where our common history ends.
>
>>Syndicate
>>carried a lot of first hand reports from the region at time. Never having
>>recovered from this controversy something slowly went wrong with the list.
>>Like reader the list was open and unmoderated, unprotected. 
>
>unlike nettime it was (and is) lively and friendly
>
>>Dialogue faded
>>away. Announcements took over. Silence set in. Then a few net.artists
>>started to use the list as their forum and posted immense ammounts of
>>self-promoting ascii art posting, full of hatred. Syndicate got deserted and
>>in a matter of weeks was destroyed by a hand full of people. You can see it
>>for yourself: http://www.v2.nl/mail/v2east/.
>
>mr lovink this is false
>here are the facts
>
>someone complained about nn (as usual)
>there was some discussion (as usual)
>nothing happened, too many people said they liked her and that the problem was not too much nn but not enough of the others talking (as usual)
>then (I was offline in NL) the admins decided to unsub her but all they sent was a majordomo system message that said that she was unsubbed
>so, when I came back I asked 'did she unsub herself or was she removed ?'
>there was some discussion (as usual)
>finally they admitted to having removed her and then more people complained about this decision that was not discussed on the list and not explained
>after a while the admins said something like 'ok, there are more people that want her back, so, we'll put her back and we're going away' (that a was stunning decision)
>suddenly there were no admins anymore 
>new people said they wanted to be admin
>I supported them. there were tons of private mail between a handful of people
>and
>
>syndicate is on a new server and all is well
>there are 400 subscribers and you are all welcome to join!
>http://anart.no/sympa/info/syndicate
>
>>  In my opinion it's a good lesson what can happen to list.
>
>yes, according to the unbiased facts,
>it truly is!
>
>>  Now a new initiative has been launched by
>>the same people called Spectre. It's an interesting read what they learned
>>from this bitter case of so-called net.art destroying a community:
>
>come on, most of the people involved were not net artists
>and if they were: so what ?!
>
>sorry i believe this is off topic but i value the syndicate list as much as this one (reader) mostly as an outsider that wishes to learn more than impose his own culture even if i have some internet mileage too.
>
>
>>SPECTRE is an open, unmoderated mailing list for media art and culture in
>>Deep Europe.
>
>farewell,
>f.