At 00:20 10/10/2004, you wrote: >Still wondering though for whom is the illusion being played out? An >illusion requires a viewer to be an illusion, even if that illusion in >self-awareness. things don't have to have a purpose, maker or viewer they can just exist even if we don't or are not present concepts can't, they just vanish if we (matter) do not convey them I think f.